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Sunday, July 7, 2013

"Polygamy USA" Some Family Trees from Centennial Park to the Dargers




A Little Genealogy of Centennial Park: 
A little bird's been helping with the genealogy. I hope to have a complete one soon. As with all genealogies, they may be errors, but this is to the best of our knowledge.

**Do you know that ISAIAH THOMPSON is actually ISAIAH BARLOW?
**"Wife" BECCA or REBBECA is REBECCA TIMPSON, father RAY TIMPSON, which would of some relation to JOHN W. TIMPSON, one of CP's leaders.



**HYRUM "BURTON" TIMPSON recently married KELLIE. I have to say I thought the tree HYRUM made was really sweet. KELLIE is not KELLIE THOMPSON.
KELLIE is KELLIE BARLOW, the sister of ISAIAH "THOMPSON" BARLOW. The BARLOW name goes to JOHN YEATES BARLOW, who was a Mormon fundamentalist leader in Short Creek.

**ISAIAH BARLOW and KELLIE BARLOW are siblings!

Which leads us to HYRUM's curious parentage.

Source say that HYRUM BURTON is actually HYRUM TIMPSON, son of Centennial Park leader JOHN W. TIMPSON. Also according to reports, SUSIE was not his mother, Sister wife mother, yes. Full Aunt yes. But we've been told his mother is actually another wife JOHN W. TIMPSON'S and SUSIE'S full blooded sister, Arthur Hammon's half sister. We will call her Mother HAMMON TIMPSON, which also would be ARTHUR HAMMON'S half sister. It wasn't his mother that passed, but his aunt, or other mother. That was a definite "white lie" on the show if this is true. We have been told that all the children were to call SUSIE mother, whether she was their actual mother in the home or not. 

HYRUM's grandfather hence is ALMA A. TIMPSON. His home was the initial Centennial Park group meeting place. He was an influential part of the group, and Centennial Park leader from 1988 until his death in 1997.

While we are speaking of Aunt Susie's passing, here is her obituary. One thing polygamists love to do is to leave out the names of their children!


SUSIE TIMPSON
Sep 13, 1946 - Nov 15, 2012

 Our beloved wife, mother, sister and friend, Susie (Hammon) Timpson, age 66, passed away peacefully in her home in Centennial Park, Arizona, surrounded by her family.  She was born September 13, 1946 in Hildale, Utah, the oldest daughter of J.M. Hammon and Alice (Barlow) Hammon.  She spent the early years of her life in Salt Lake City, UT and Farmington, UT, then moved to Colorado City, AZ in 1960.  She married John W. Timpson on September 7, 1964.

Susie graduated from the Colorado City Academy in 1964. She then attended Stevens Henager College of Business.  She spent the first years of her married life living and working in Salt Lake City, supporting her husband as he attended the University of Utah.  After he obtained his Bachelor's Degree in Physics, they moved to Colorado City, AZ, where they raised their family.  Again, she supported her husband as he completed his mission of educating the young teenagers of Colorado City Academy for 20 years.  She was employed several times over her life time, most notably at Polyseal in Salt Lake City.  She worked and interacted with many people she cared deeply about, and they loved her as a loyal friend and mentor. 

She then returned home to Colorado City and, together with her husband and family, built a home in Centennial Park, where she lived the remaining years of her life.  She was relied on to put her mind, heart and hands wherever she was asked to participate: in family life, in community life, in religious life.  She was intelligent, beautiful, strong, passionate, full of life and humor and compassion.  She loved administering to her husband, her family and her community.   She loved the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the opportunities and blessings it brought to her life.   She was a strong and valuable advocate for women, loving them and encouraging them to strive for a greater life and destiny.  She is a beloved friend and counselor to so many.

She is survived by her husband, John, her children and numerous grandchildren, and a large, loving extended family.  She is preceded in death by her parents and her husband's parents, who she loved deeply.

Funeral services will be held Wednesday, November 21, 2012, at 1:00 pm at the Centennial Park Chapel in Centennial Park, AZ.  There will be a family gathering from 7:30 to 9:30 pm on Monday, November 19th.  Friends and family are welcome to say goodbye to Susie on Tuesday, November 20th from 7:00 - 9:30 pm and again on the morning of Wednesday, November 21st from 10:00 am - 12:30 pm, prior to the service at 1:00 pm. Interment will be in the Centennial Park Cemetery, Centennial Park, AZ.

The family wishes to thank all those who assisted in the care of Susie over the last five years.  It is deeply appreciated.
Brethern Leader JOHN W. TIMPSON and SUSIE HAMMON

Speaking of JOHN W. TIMPSON, on of the leaders of Centennial Park, we found an interesting relationship between him and Creepy Crawly MICHAEL CAWLEY.
Remember when poor ROSE was talking with the Brethern, *Cough* Grandpa CLAUDE TOMKINS CAWLEY? Buckle you seatblet, 'cause he we go again!!

Brethern CLAUDE T. CAWLEY is the father of MICHAEL CAWLEY.
CLAUDE T. CAWLEY has a number of wives, one being another sister of ARTHUR HAMMON. One of ARTHUR'S unnamed sister is another wife of JOHN W. TIMPSON. Boy, ole ARTHUR has sisters everywhere!

Now here comes the connection between Brethern CLAUDE T. CAWLEY and Brethern JOHN W. TIMPSON....they are brothers from the same mother!!
Meet  GUINEVERE CAWLEY TIMPSON, mother of both CLAUDE T. CAWLEY and JOHN W. TIMPSON. They are brothers from the same mother.


Born: 20 Jan 1914-Died: 17 Mar 2012
**First wife of Cawley, not of Timpson.
Guinevere Woolley Timpson was born on January 20, 1914 in Ogden, Utah, and died on March 17, 2012, in Colorado City, Arizona. She was the daughter of Franklin Benjamin and Ellie Seegmiller Woolley, the youngest of their 12 children, all of whom she survived. Her early years were spent in Ogden, where she married John C. Cawley, who was tragically killed in an automobile accident in December, 1937. She married Alma Adelbert Timpson on April 25, 1944, leaving Ogden to live with him in Salt Lake City, Utah. During subsequent years, she operated the True Method Reducing business in Salt Lake. She has lived briefly in Los Angeles, California, Boise, Idaho, and Riverside, California, returning to Salt Lake City in 1956, where she resided until her move to Colorado City, Arizona by 1970.

Her life was marked distinctively by her loyalty to the priesthood authority she recognized as presiding over her, under whose guidance she performed ordinance work during most years of her long life for hundreds of young women. They and many others of her extended family and acquaintances came to love her as a wise counselor and dear friend.

She is survived by her two sons, CLAUDE T. CAWLEY and JOHN W. TIMPSON, and numerous grandsons and granddaughters.

Funeral services will be held at 12:00 noon in the chapel at Centennial Park, Arizona, on March 25, 2012, and a viewing open to the general public from 6:00 p.m. until 9:00 p.m. March 24, as well as 9:00 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. on the day of the funeral. (Source: Deseret News, Mar 2012)

Which makes JOHN W. TIMPSON an uncle to MICHAEL CAWLEY, and HYRUM "BURTON TIMPSON" and MICHAEL CAWLEY first cousins.

MICHAEL CAWLEY is married to TERESA KNUDSON, who is a sibling to ROB KNUDSON, husband of AMANDA DARGER, daughter of JOE DARGER. See how this ferris wheel rides? It gets interesting.  TERESA KNUDSON'S parents are KENNETH C. KNUDSON and unnamed HAMMON. There's that HAMMON surname again. The KNUDSON family have that HUGE home in Centennial Park.

Before we leave the DARGER'S - here's JOE DARGER'S Father's obit:


 Our friend, brother and loving father, Joseph Lynn Darger, passed away December 13, 1995, at his home in Herriman, Utah.

Lynn was born December 24, 1946, in Salt Lake City, Utah, to David Brigham Darger and Virginia Beth McDaniel Darger. His mother died in 1958. Lynn's life was the gospel of Jesus Christ, and he lived and loved it to the very end. His selflessness and sacrifice blessed him with many friends and a large family who love him and will miss him.He is survived by his wives, Shauna, Melinda, Brenda and Debbie; children, Joseph, Jason, Danielle, Dustin, Rachel, Levi, Lucas, Moroni, Kristina, Eliza, Shauna, Brigham, Melinda, Rebekah, Ethen, Heber and Heleman; sons-in-law, Matthew Jessop and Ryan Jessop; daughters-in-law, Cindy, Vicki, Alina, and Rhonda; other mothers, Celesta, Violet, Deborah; brothers, Ronald, Brigham, David, Allan and Richard Darger; sisters, Dawn Boss, Janet Williams and Kaylene Barlow; and 29 other brothers and sisters. Preceded in death by his father and mother; special mother, Aldora ("Lizey") Darger; brother, Lee Darger, and sister, Ann Kelsch.

Funeral services will be held Saturday, December 16, 1995, 2 p.m. at Larkin Mortuary, 260 East South Temple. Friends may call Friday evening from 6 to 8 p.m. and one hour prior to services. Interment Elysian Burial Gardens. (Source: Deseret News)

Remember how JOE DARGER said "Big Love" was based on his family?
Here's an interesting artile I came across about JOE'S father JOSEPH LYNN DARGER'S wife SHAUNA:
Seems like the ole Mother of the Year award scenario really happened!

POLYGAMOUS MOM SLIPS OUT
BACK DOOR OF CEREMONY
As Gov. Mike Leavitt and his wife Jacalyn honored 24 Utah women as "great examples
and symbols of motherhood," another nominee quietly slipped out the back door of the
Governor's Mansion because her polygamous past had become known by ceremony
organizers.
Shauna Lynne Darger -- nominated by her son for the award -- arrived for Saturday's
ceremony along with two dozen of "Utah's Remarkable Mothers" from around the state.
But the Riverton mother of 10 never stepped up to accept her tribute.
Informed that Darger had been a polygamist, ceremony organizers confronted her.
Darger acknowledged having a past polygamous relationship, then left the mansion with
three grown children who had accompanied her, said the governor's spokesperson, VickiVarela.
"I'm declining the award," Darger tolda Salt Lake Tribune reporter, refusing comment
about whether she currently is in a polygamous relationship.
Darger was one of four wives of Joseph Lynn Darger, of Herriman, until he died in
1995.
The woman was pictured along with the 24 other nominees in a full-page ZCMI
department store ad in Saturday's Tribune.The governor learned of the controversy only after the ceremony, Varela said. "He
respected this as the best choice for this person to make under the circumstances," Varela
said.
Organizers did not try to persuade Darger to stay.
"It was clear she was choosing to leave the event," Varela said, adding Darger did not
want to attract negative attention to the ceremony, nor to herself.
Varela said the focus on polygamy was unfortunate for the other mothers "and for this
mother's mothering which,
have no doubt, is honorable."
Family and friends nominated Darger by submitting letters to ZCMI
and the Governor's Initiative on Families Today.
Criminal background checks were run on the nominees, Varela said, "but there is
nothing that would have brought this to our attention."
Laura Chapman, a former member of the anti-polygamy group Tapestry of Polygamy,
said: "There are some good mothers in polygamy. I don't think that should exclude her
from an award. But if she's indoctrinating her children to break the law, that's not a good mom."
Polygamy was renounced by The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1890, and six years later outlawed
by the Utah Constitution. Darger won a place among the list of 25 women,
in part, for starting a successful catering
business after her husband died. The business has allowed Darger to support and nurture
her children at home, according to a son's nomination letter.
Added the son: "Her daily heroism both inspires me and epitomizes the high office of motherhood."  (Source: Salt Lake Tribune: 2 May 1999. pg. C.1)

Now Back to the Polygamy USA Bunch!

MICHAEL CAWLEY had a great grandmother named FAWNETTA JESSOP. That leads his family into the ALLREDS, JESSOPS, BARLOWS and past leader JOHN YEATES BARLOW.

ROSE CAWLEY probably has to do a lot of genealogy before finding that inspiration about a husband! 

I'll stop there for now. We will go into the HAMMON family tree next.

The same names keep popping up over and over in this small town. When another generation is added, you can connect about anyone-from the Browns, Dargers, Jessops Allreds. This is one interconnected group!  Some information is left out to protect those not on the show. If you'd like to add information, please email us at the right!

Be sure and check back for a new post coming...a perspective of what it's like inside Centennial Park and other polygamist sects, from Ed Kociela, author of "Plygs" who was in a scene of Polygamy USA.  

Interested in the family history of the Browns? Click these.
Meri's family
Meri's sister Teresa
Kody's family history
Janelle's grandmother

Speaking of "Big Love" are you a fan? Then check out the fun comparisons between Sister Wives and Big Love - here and here. Cynical Jinx is our resident Big Love Expert!


Just In:
INTERESTING Video from Nightline:
'Ole MICHAEL CAWLEY talking about adding another wife (just what he needs) and ROSE MARIE talking about getting a husband with none or ten wives, so nonchalantly! MICHAEL says he would sleep good at night if ROSE MARIE married a 70 yr old man, that's what father in heaven wanted. RUN ROSE RUN! God has multiple wives according to ISAIAH BARLOW cough Thompson. Watch his wife REBECCA TIMPSON BARLOW roll those eyes when interrupted by MARLEEN!

108 comments:

  1. Any chance for a graphic depiction of the family trees? So much easier to understand

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    1. Imagine a Christmas wreath...

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    2. Even better - imagine the tangle of Christmas lights after they come off the tree. And all the bulbs are either dim or completely burned out.

      (I say this even though I've never seen the show. Reading about it here is quite enough for me, thank you.)

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    3. I think their family trees look more like seaweed!

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    4. I completely agree with Anonymous 2:29. I so got lost reading the written out family tree. Please draw something and scan it in! Even if it does look like a wreath, it still would be helpful.

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  2. Another sister with a blister....e-gads

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    1. Sister BlisterwifeJuly 8, 2013 at 2:59 PM

      I couldn't stop staring at it!

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  3. Ok so I have a question about the Dargers daughter that married the boy said to be from CP or CC ? not sure. Anyway I thought that they are not allowed to date there and the Dargers daughter and the boy had been dating before they got married - no?

    Also have you ever noticed that Hammon St. runs through CP and all the way threw Colorado City? Its the only street that does - I thought they were not associated with one another? Or at least that is what Arthur said on the show.

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    1. I thought that they are not allowed to date there and the Dargers daughter and the boy had been dating before they got married - no?
      Amanda Darger is married to Rob of Centennial Park. According to the TLC special "My Three Wives", Amanda was away at college and started attending youth get togethers in Centennial Park. She met Rob at one of those get togethers. Since Rob was not part of the Polygamy, USA series, it would be difficult to know exactly what their relationship was before marriage, however, I would assume that Rob asked the Brethren for permission to marry Amanda and it was granted - probably similar to what happened with Ezra and Tiffany. Here is a link to the Darger's take on Centennial Park.Our Curious Relationship With Centennial Park Arizona

      Also have you ever noticed that Hammon St. runs through CP and all the way threw Colorado City? Its the only street that does - I thought they were not associated with one another? Or at least that is what Arthur said on the show.
      Here's a link showing a list of fundamentalist leaders. The names Hammon, Barlow, Timpson (to name a few) were leaders in Colorado City before they broke away and formed the Second Ward in Centennial Park, so I'm not surprised that streets were named after their families.
      List of Mormon fundamentalist leaders

      Here's a link that discusses the Short Creek Community and how it later evolved into the cities of Hildale/Colorado City and Centennial Park.
      Centennial Park group

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    2. Thank you Cynical for the links and for all the work done here. It takes a lot of time
      and much commitment to do what is done here and you do it very well. I love to
      come here and get the skinny on the shows as well as all the other info I have found
      here! Much appreciated !!

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  4. Re minds me of the song "I'm My Own Grandpa"

    Now, many many years ago
    When I was twenty three
    I was married to a widow
    Who was pretty as could be

    This widow had a grown-up daughter
    Had hair of red
    My father fell in love with her
    And soon the two were wed

    This made my dad my son-in-law
    And changed my very life
    My daughter was my mother
    'Cause she was my father's wife

    To complicate the matters
    Even though it brought me joy
    I soon became the father
    Of a bouncing baby boy

    My little baby then became
    A brother-in-law to dad
    And so became my uncle
    Though it made me very sad

    For if he was my uncle
    That also made him the brother
    Of the widow's grown-up daughter
    Who, of course, was my step-mother

    My father's wife then had a son
    That kept them on the run
    And he became my grandchild
    For he was my daughter's son

    My wife is now my mother's mother
    And it makes me blue
    Because, she is my wife
    She's my grandmother too

    Now, if my wife is my grandmother
    Then, I am her grandchild
    And every time I think of it
    It nearly drives me wild

    For now I have become
    The strangest case you ever saw
    As the husband of my grandmother
    I am my own grandpa

    I'm my own grandpa
    I'm my own grandpa
    It sounds funny I know
    But it really is so
    I'm my own grandpa

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    1. Soooo funny..thanks for the laugh July 7th...I'm my own grandpa! So confusing to read this family tree, I too had to re/read several times to get a grasp on it. But I appreciate the work that went into this...wow. Still don't respond often, but still read this blog several times a week. Thanks to all who participate.

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    2. So true. I have that song on my iTunes. I think one of the biggest examples of this is Rebecca Musser being step great-grandma to her own children (she was married to Rulon Jeffs, when she fled, it was to marry Rulon's grandson who is her age...).

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  5. First and LastWifeJuly 8, 2013 at 1:07 AM

    I'm guessing Marleen grew up in a "Independent" polygamous household? Perhaps similar to the Dargers. I say that because she admited to being shocked at the abuse that was going on in some sects, which tells you she didn't grow up in Hildale or Colorado City. And we know she wasn't born in Centennial. I'd love to know more about the "Thompsons" aka Barlows, but I can't find anything. Watching Polygamy USA I found myself more fascinated with this group than the others because I felt like they held back more than the other families. For people so intent on speaking out, they're still very much reserved...Also, if Marleen and Isaiah grew up elsewhere, did they fall in love before marriage? Something CP members don't really do? So many questions for these people!!!

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    1. I totally agree. This family is the most intriguing to me for several reasons. They're young. They're "fashionable." They moved to CP as married adults. They're at the outset of their "polygamist journey."

      I'd be interested in learning more about Marleen's family history. Any chance of that?

      Also, is it true that Becca and Hyrum were together in high school? Aren't they somehow related?

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    2. First and LastWifeJuly 9, 2013 at 9:13 PM

      Actually, I think I read something here on SWB about Becca and Hyrum. Not sure if they dated, but it was something about Hyrum posting on his facebook page that Becca was the coolest person he'd ever known. I remember a scene where Uncle Arthur mentioned that in CP they don't believe in "Trying one (a girl) on for size". That made me laugh so hard when he said that! So if they did date, I'm sure we'll never really know the truth. However, Hyrum mentioned he'd kissed girls before so one of those girls could've been Becca. And if it was, it's a little bit odd to me that his name didn't get "stuck" in her head. Not sure if they're related. And I think that's probably why we both find them so interesting. Because we don't know ANYTHING about them!! They managed to keep themselves so private yet open at the same time.

      Also, If Marleen and Isaiah married outside of CP than they probably married for love. Unless it was one of those Janelle and Kody type relationships. After 8 years of marriage to someone that you WANT to be married too (not just who God whispers to you) I would think the jealousy issue after Becca came in would of been insane! Apparently it wasn't. If anyone from CP writes a book, I hope its them.

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    3. Since Hyrum and Becca are both Timpsons I think it's safe to say they are at least cousins because we know they have different fathers. But if hanky-panky did go on that would explain why Hyrum was a missionary for so long and Becca got married off to Isaiah so quickly. She seems so hot to trot sometimes.

      I think there's a lot of jealousy brewing between Marleen and Becca. I think Marleen did marry Isaiah for love, just look at that picture of them up above. I think Becca was forced into this family, and that's why she's only been pregnant once. And Marleen self-medicates herself with a bottle of wine to cope with it all.

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    4. Becca being "hot to trot" is right on the money. I also believe she would not be offended if Isiah bought her a stripper pole for Christmas.

      Has anyone else noticed how much older Connie Crawley looks since the Lisa Ling show? I was stunned. She looks at least a decade older & is still a young woman. Polygamy just chews em up & spits them out. A good pyramid scheme for them would be some sort of magical face cream to go along with their magical underwear.

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    5. I also feel that Marleen seems jealous. It seemed like on the Lisa Ling video all of the adults seemed happier. Also, Isaiah never seems happy on this show. He never smiles at all. Marlene said that Isaiah choose to work out of town in order to support "his family". I wonder why she didn't say "our family".

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    6. First and LastWifeJuly 10, 2013 at 9:38 PM

      I've also noticed that about Isaiah. He doesn't smile nor does he talk with any enthusiasm. He seemed the hardest to read. Not sure if polygamy itself has maybe taken an emotional toll on him or if he's just completely different behind closed doors. Than again after re-watching the Lisa Ling special, he seemed exactly the same way then. I think overall he's just like that. Even in the above picture of him and Marleen he looks like he has no emotions. He's strange.

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    7. I think the polygamist lifestyle takes a tole on both the women and men and wouldn't be surprised if that is why Isaiah's eyes seems so glazed over all the time. We give the men of this community a hard time but really I think they are missing out on the one on one quality of a monogamous marriage just as much as the women are. There is nothing like catching up with my husband when we come home from work everyday. It is just this great companion of my life and we have such a special bond. If we had to share that with another woman or women I would be constantly depressed and I am sure that would affect my husband too. A genuinely good guy would feel guilt and sadness if he truly cared about his wife and her depression. In a way this just makes me respect Isaiah. You can see he clearly is troubled by how this lifestyle affects his first love. On the other hand you have Kodouche completely unaware of the nightmare his wives are living and shows no concern when one of his wives is going through hard times.

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  6. This was interesting to read. It took me two times reading through before I felt close to understanding all the relationships. I wonder how they keep up with this in order to keep from inadvertently marrying their own family. I also wonder if the birth defect rate is higher there.

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    1. First and LastWifeJuly 8, 2013 at 12:16 PM

      I was wondering the exact same thing! The whole time I was watching I kept thinking that Rose Marie was going to be the one to get Hyrums name in her head, the way the show featured both of their stories & the fact that they were both ready for marriage. In fact I was almost rooting for it! Than to find out their lineage! Its almost no wonder the poor girl can't get a "name". It seems everyone out that way that practices this religion is tied to each other one way or another. But why not have an open dance for other communities to join for more variation? Than again it might not be a problem for them. I also wonder about that birth defect rate!

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    2. Is marrying your cousin taboo in this community?

      Not all communities consider it to be so.

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    3. First and LastWifeJuly 9, 2013 at 9:30 PM

      Taboo or not, considering the fact that they have "outed" themselves to the ENTIRE world in an attempt for decriminalization and acceptance, one would think that the Brethren would be extra careful at this point in time about who marries who. Incest is a very big deal to a lot of people. Especially to people who are watching them. I read here (on another thread) that more people in CP are currently living monogamous than they are polygamous. Perhaps now that Polygamy has become a hot topic they are treading carefully?

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    4. Perhaps now that Polygamy has become a hot topic they are treading carefully?
      I'm thinking they are running out of suitable wives.

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    5. first and last wife - i was the one that wrote about more monogamous families. its not a huge percentage but i also wrote in another thread that this community is very young right now. half of the people here are under age 20. since the age for marriage is 18+, this is where the monogamous families come in. Hyrum and Kellie would fit into the monogamous percentage. the community is not treading carefully since polygamy is always a hot topic. the brethren know exactly who is related to whom. Incest is a big deal to us as a community as well. first, second and third cousin marriages are frowned upon here. of course, what they dont tell you on the show is that there have been converts (both men and women) to this work over the last decade who arent related to anyone so it increases the gene pool. also, there have been children born with disabilities but the birth defect rate here isnt a problem as assumed. i believe you might be thinking of hildale/colorado city which has a very high percentage of fumarase deficiency caused by inbreeding of families with this recessive gene.

      CJ - running out of suitable wives.... really? here's a sampling of population so you can better understand: on my side of the street, there are six families (both polygamous and monogamous) with a total of 44 children between us. there are 10 children 18+: 5 boys; 5 girls; 2 of the boys have a one wife and one child respectively; the other 3 are on missions. 2 girls are married (1 has a child, the other doesnt), 1 is single and in college; 2 just graduated from the academy. there are 34 children under 18: 12 boys; 22 girls. As you can see, the children on my street section are predominately female and under 18. yes, they are all first and second cousins so they wont be marrying each other nor anytime soon since 34 are underaged. I just happen to live in the section of Centennial where brothers and sisters decided to live near each other and raise their families. Not all of CP is like this.

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  7. So, it has been tweeted that Sister Wives will return July 21, but TLC has on their site that they will be returning on July 17. Is it just me or is a Wednesday night premier not as "prime time" as a Sunday night premier???

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    1. I believe TLC is as confused as it's website...Honey Boo Boo premieres on July 17 so I think it was a mistake. Even the official Facebook page shows July 21 as the premiere date.

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    2. It is pretty obvious on the TLC FB page who has top priorities....HBB of course. I can't seem to find any type of snippet or mention of "Sisterwives" and when they are going to be on.

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    3. The official TLC Facebook page for Sister Wives shows July 21...

      https://www.facebook.com/sisterwives

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  8. Wow! Thank you for the interesting read. It actually makes more sense now. I also watched the video that was posted and I have to say it really gave me the willies. What Father in his right mind would let his daughter marry a 70 year old man? And, be comfortable with it?
    I really enjoy reading this blog. I can't wait for the next one!

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  9. For everyone wondering about the birth defects the rates from a genetic standpoint would very likely be a lot higher than average as the branches of the family trees in these communities are tied a bit too close together. Getting hard data is impossible because these groups are so insular. I do recall years ago a documentary where Flora Jessop was walking through a cemetery in a polygamous communitty. She stops to read some of the headstones and says something about how many babies and young children have passed. She also added that if this happened anywhere else certainly CPS or another organization would have investigated. I would imagine the high infant mortality rate is due to severe genetic disorders andpossibly difficult home births and laborious complications. I no longer can remember what the program was titled but it did give a small insight into what I can only assume is a serious epedemic of birth defects.

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    1. I doubt all of the child deaths are from genetic defects. I am a Biologist and it would have to be pretty close to have defects that bad to cause death, ie brothers and sisters marrying. As far as I know I don't think they are. Yes their gene pool is smaller but I doubt if I did an DNA analysis on them that they are close enough to cause those severe defects. It could be that many of them do not a see a doctor during their pregnancies that they are missing complications or warning signs because they are afraid to go to the hospital and be found out that they are polygamous. It is well known that due to doctors and modern medicine many more people are being born due to medical intervention than before, thus if you are living in the old times you are probably going to live with the old birth statistics.

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    2. I work for CPS (not in Utah) and all suspicious child deaths are investigated by CPS. I wonder if they report these deaths or if they discard of the body quietly so as to avoid attention. This would certainly open that group up to scrutiny.

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    3. Fumarase deficiency - an incredibly rare genetic disorder is rife in the FLDS and Centennial Park because of inbreeding. Almost no cases have been found in the world, apart from in these polygamist communities. In spite of knowing the risks, these people continue their practices, and seeing a doctor during pregnancy would not dissuade them from simply continuing to have as many children as possible, or "marrying" very close relatives. As for reporting deaths, even within AUB, some parents refuse to register their childrens' births, so they certainly didn't record baby deaths either. Pinesdale, Montana has a cemetery where some of these babies are buried.

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    4. here's a link to information about Fumarase http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumarase_deficiency

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    5. Thank you ex AUB. This is sad to think about. It would be hard for me to believe in a Heavenly Father who would have me risk my children's health in this way.

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    6. I've actually see.n this graveyard. My friends and I trekked around Colorado City for over an hour searching for if. It's in the back part of town in Hildale. Completely separate from the other main graveyard. It also had a weird white fence around it. We took tons of pictures. I actually cried it was so sad. There were rows and rows and rows of baby graves. Super creepy.

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  10. It's interesting that Teresa Cawley and Rob Knudson (?) who married Amanda Darger are siblings. Did anyone notice that Rob and Amanda are walking with the Cawleys (presumably to church) in the first minute of the ABC Nightline clip? I wonder what the filming timeline is for S1 of Polygamy USA? In this clip Amanda is with Rob...their wedding/Darger My Three Wives special aired during the last season of Sister Wives. And in the first season Rose Marie Cawley is 18 but the clip shows their family celebrating her 19th birthday. I hope there's not a significant lag between real time and each season. That being said, I wonder when S2 of Polyg USA will air and if Rob and Amanda will be featured in the future?

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    1. I have discovered that most of these people are on Facebook. Rose Marie Cawley had changed her name to Rose Marie KNUDSON.

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  11. I finally got to see the video. I actually really like Arthur. I don't want to live polygamy but if I did feel like my salvation were dependent on it I would choose someone like him.

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  12. Does anyone know why all the polygamist groups kneel and fold their arms a certain way while praying? I noticed that's how the Browns pray as well.

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    1. I've done a little googling on that. It's not required that they pray like this, but they consider it a sign of humility. (So it's surprising that Kody does this. Humble?) It's more a cultural habit for the Mormons and their offshoots.

      Some are of the opinion that they teach their MANY kids to pray like this because it's harder for them to poke each other and goof off in this position.

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    2. it's their sign of showing reverence. Mainstream mormons teach this to their kids in Primary in order to sit still and focus on Jesus and Heavenly Father. Mainstream mormons also always fold their arms like this to pray - whether they're kneeling, standing or sitting.

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  13. Sister BlisterwifeJuly 9, 2013 at 1:10 PM

    In the video it's pretty clear that Kelli and Isaiah do look alike, especially when Isaiah isn't wearing glasses. I wonder are they half siblings or full?

    I still like Rose Marie so much...oh, PLEASE, don't get stuck to an old geezer.

    Sorry if this is a stupid question but I can't remember if this was clarified before. Are the Browns part of the same religious sect as Centennial Park polygamists (same beliefs)?

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    1. The Browns are/were part of the AUB- the Apostlic United Brotherhood. Which I'm pretty sure I misspelled.

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  14. Just a little off topic but does anyone know if the wildfires in LV are going to affect the Browns McMansions? Janelle has posted some pictures on twitter and I guess there was an update meeting at Centennial H.S as to the status of the fire. Just wildly curious..

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    1. Not likely. They are completely surrounded by a lot of other houses, and are several miles from the areas where the fires are burning. There appears to be plenty of room for the firefighters to block the fires before they reach homes.

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    2. No, these fires are up on the mountain. Visible to us in the vegas valley but no where near us

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  15. In the linked article to the Dargers statement on their relationship with CP the comments were interesting. One girl mentions her blog, and in the blog she talks about how she and her husband have converted to polygamy and are moving to CP next year.

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  16. @ Anonymous at 8:57 PM thanks for the insight, in the documentary Flora made it sound like they are very hush-hush and bury the children quickly. Does anyone know if these communities bother with formal birth/death certificates?

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  17. What happened to the video?

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    1. I found the same video from ABC News. Hopefully, ABC News won't get termed like the other you tube account was.

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    2. Thank you! And also thanks for the whole blog, every time I visit it's like overdosing on the juiciest morsels of gossip!!! Anyways, Thanks!

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    3. i believe Flora's documentary was done back in 2010 around the time her book was published. While she is very knowledgable about Colorado City, her assumptions about Centennial Park are wrong. All births and deaths here are documented with states. This has gone on since the split back in 1985. yes, before then having a birth and death certificate was frowned upon because of the threat of persecution. We do not cover-up child deaths because they happen so rarely here since women get prenatal and postnatal care with our midwife or a ob/gyn in St. George. We also get our children the proper healthcare that they need to lead healthy lives. the 'ex AUB' person is wrong about Centennial Park having high genetic disorders. We do have children born with other disabilities but not Fumarase deficiency. this disorder is a huge problem in Hildale/Colorado City because of inbreeding of families with the recessive gene. in CP, we frown upon marriages of first, second or third cousins. We are also not a closed community as what has happened over there with the FLDS.

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    4. Sorry rain but I think your information is wrong. The recessive gene for fumarase deficiency has been traced to two families: Barlows and Jessops. The ONLY way no one in Centennial Park could possibly carry the recessive gene for fumerase deficiency would be to not have any Barlows or Jessops in their family tree. But we already know that the residents of Centennial Park at one time were part of the Short Creek community until Timpson and Hammon were driven out and formed Centennial Park. It is highly possible that recessive gene resides in many residents of Centennial Park that can trace their lineage back to Joseph Smith Jessop and John Yeates Barlow.

      And a midwife or an ob/gyn located an hour's drive away is not proper care for high risk pregnancies that I'm certain occurs when women have baby after baby for decades. What happens to the premies that are born? Are the mothers shipped off to St George for medical care?

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  18. I feel like the slow kid in the back of the room trying to learn calculus. I'm way back at the beginning... So Kellie and Isaiah... are siblings... blink... blink...

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    1. You are way ahead of me! I can't figure anything out...

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  19. I find it hard to believe that Susie is not Hyrum's biological mother...he looks just like her?

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    1. She's his aunt, the sister of his mother, so I can see them looking that much alike.

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  20. First and LastWifeJuly 10, 2013 at 9:43 PM

    Does anyone happen to know if Ezra and Tiffany are still together?

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  21. I am a newbie to this blog so please forgive me for changing the subject a little. Although I do not agree with the plyg lifestyle, I am fascinated by the family dynamics. I use the 'abuse' (emotional and sexual) I observe (IMO) as a discussion tool with my twin teenage daughters on how to successfully choose a mate. I stress looking for abuse in their family, circle of friends dynamic, and personality traits. Do any of you ever discuss with your children things that disturb you about the families in CP, Browns, and Dargers? I even discuss things that bother be about the Duggars, even though I respect their choices more.

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    1. I think a lot like you slacker. Don't condone/endorse this lifestyle. I am however fascinated by these groups. My sister is a therapist and when we do talk about the Browns Duggars and Dargers we seem to focus on the abuses. Religion doesn't justify this...nothing does. We talk a lot about how sad it is that the women and children bear the brunt. I think its wonderful you are already talking to your girls about all forms of abuse. It may save them from a very dangerous situation. What bothers me most is the emotional abuse when women are told this is the only way to make God happy. Sorry but God is not happy when thousands of women and children are emotionally repressed "staying sweet" mentally physically and sexually abused.

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    2. While I have never discussed polygamy with my twin daughters (15) or son (20) what I HAVE repeatedly tried to teach and demonstrate to them is that they are great people who do not deserve to be abused, undermined, or treated unfairly. That they are never to bow to 'peer pressure' if something does not feel right.
      To know that they are truly great kids/people and deserve to be treated as such. Anything less is unacceptable.

      The fact that the polygamists wives, young women and girls (Brown's, Darger, Centennial Park) are raised with a whole different value system via their religion is what worries me. They have no choice to see anything different than what they have been taught.('You don't marry into polygamy and you are seen as a whore?' something wrong with this religion.. Big time.)

      Share my husband with another, another, maybe another and another so you can be happy after death is unfathomable to me. Put up with jealous sister wives, domineering husbands, and raising not only your large brood but your sisterwives too does not sound like a great life for a woman. But pretty good for a sexist polygamist man/pig.

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    3. You're right Amy. It's a terrible life for women, and for men with a conscience it's not so hot either.

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  22. In the clip above, Rose reinforces that the food thing is a big issue in their house. There was the frightening apple sauce conversation with Michael, the clips of Rose talking about how 'people can't just come in and out and eat' and then telling ABC news that her biggest concern is that food is equally shared by all the children. Is there a back story where Rose's kids don't get as much food because she 1) has more mouths to feed (ala the Janelle vs. Meri situation) or 2) because Theresa is the favored wife and her kids get 'better and more' food?

    I just think it's telling that she mentions the food thing all the time. She clearly feels her kids aren't getting the appropriate amount of food.

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    1. I highly doubt that the family would choose one mother's children to get better food than anothers. If children are the base of these families that is most likely not the case. She is probably worried about the money and they don't have alot of food and children can't come sneak in and take seconds because there is barely enough for everyone to eat.

      She probably mentions it alot or we see it alot because it is the main concern in their family right now that they are stretched thin. Wouldn't all mothers be concerned about having enough food for the family?

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    2. And remember the argument between 2 of the wives was centered around a loaf of bread! Isn't that what prompted the 3rd wife to move out. Can't feed the ones they have....so lets keep making more!

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    3. I can see where she is coming from, though. Any house with that many kids in it would have serious cash flow problems and if everyone (adults) aren't all pulling together I can see how there could be a lot of problems with things like meal prep.

      I wonder how much of that is from her own childhood, though. How many siblings did SHE have growing up.

      I agree there is a food issue in that house, but I'm not entirely certain what it is.

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    4. Kim in AB, the food issue in that house is that they keep reproducing babies when they cannot afford to feed them. Period.

      Just sad. And yet the wives will continue to feel the pressure to keep on having babies.. And THAT is what is wrong with polygamy in my eyes..

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    5. You got it Darlene and Amy! Keep having babies and collecting welfare and you'll get your reward in Heaven. Barf.

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    6. What a nightmare - none of these women have any kind of autonomy. It sounds like living in military barracks when you can't make a decision about when (or maybe even what) you want to feed your children.

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  23. Kim, I think Rose said she grew up with 29 siblings or 32--some humongous number of sibs. It looked like the Cawleys were sitting at a whole bunch of tables at mealtimes with each mother being responsible for her own offspring. Uncle Arthur's dining room seemed more like a place for a whole family to interact with one another. Obviously, the Cawley family has outgrown their house. Rose said something like "well, a mother just can't come and feed her children at any old time". LOL Wish they'd air all the conflicts on this subject. Is it the overcrowding that is the main problem or the tight budget or perhaps the personalities who will never be able to achieve more than tolerance for one another. Connie looks quite sour but maybe she's just tired. I can't imagine mothering that number of "stair-step" children, working full-time and having household duties without exhaustion!

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    1. I have noticed in most of the polygamist families (based on shows and on books I have read), the mothers are basically responsible for their own kids. They might all pool their resources but the moms have to look out for their own kids and make sure they have food, clothes, medical care (which I would do, too). What polygamists seem to not think of is that having 6 toddlers is very different than 6 teenagers. And since they keep having more kids, they don't really notice how expensive it has become to feed their families until they have about 15 kids. I think they get all caught up in cute little godly kids and don't think about the logisitics of feeding all of them. I can assure you in ten more years, the "Thomsons" will not be eating sushi and steak. And they will definitely be purchasing cheaper wine.

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    2. >> And since they keep having more kids, they don't really notice how expensive it has become to feed their families until they have about 15 kids. I think they get all caught up in cute little godly kids and don't think about the logisitics of feeding all of them. I can assure you in ten more years, the "Thomsons" will not be eating sushi and steak. And they will definitely be purchasing cheaper wine. >>

      I think that is really true, CPA Carol. I've thought that a lot, too. If there are a couple or three wives and maybe 6 kids between them with one mom as the 'home mom' and everyone else working they can probably get along not too badly.

      But when there are more wives, younger wives, ALWAYS a houseful of toddlers, and a certain amount of chaos *all* the time I can see how that would grind a person down.

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    3. First and LastWifeJuly 12, 2013 at 7:47 PM

      Just how hard do you have to be, to be able to say NO to your children when they are hungry and ask you for food? All because "a mother just can't come in here and feed their children at any ol' time" so food is distributed fairly! Or too have to say "NO, I'm sorry you're little stomachs aren't full but you can't have seconds". I could never deny my son food! PERIOD! I couldn't live with myself. I don't care what time of day it is when my kid tells me he's hungry I'm going to feed him. I'd rather be a single mom than be told my kids can't eat. That would be the last straw for me.

      It actually makes me think...In the case of applesauce-gate, Rose snuck it all to her hungry kids when the rest of the family went to sleep. That's why she was so afraid to have to ask for more.

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    4. I think you're probably right. Rose predates the other wives and many of her children were born before "9 under school age" stage. When her first ones came along I bet she cooked from scratch and knows a gazillion filling cheap dishes that can't be done while caring for 9 pre-schoolers. The Cawleys look stretched in so many ways that some sort of birth control would seem sensible! Wonder if the wives know about "headaches"? LOL

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  24. Just FYI, on my cable system (Time Warner) the season premier (episode 601) is available on demand. I live in Ventura county, California. Not sure if TW is offering this in all markets.

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  25. I'm watching the new episode of Sister Wives as I write this!! I don't know WHY but it is available On Demand (Comcast Massachusetts). I'm about 13 minutes into it and NOTHING new, no revelations yet. I won't post any spoilers (if there are any) unless you all ask me to...lol So far, big yawn fest!!

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    1. I'm watching On Demand too. Let's not spoil it for those without On Demand...it's only 11 more days before the premiere. Thanks!

      PS...There were 2 short previews-one about MSWC and the other about the McMansions. I'll see if they are available on TLC s website.

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    2. Don't worry CJ, I won't!! As much as I love reading your reviews, I've got to say you won't have a whole lot to work with on this one...wish I could get that hour back! lol

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    3. Just finished watching.

      Im actually more excited for CJ/s write up. Hope she'll be able to get it up soon after it premiers.

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    4. Thanks for the heads up! Watching it now :) not gonna spoil but I just have to say that if the sponsors in the OnDemand match the regular broadcast, they aren't gonna make much. IMO

      That said...CJ can't wait for your write up!!
      Anyway we can have a separate post for those of us who've seen it and can't wait to discuss? Labeled spoiler so others know? I'm itching to chat about it...!

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  26. Ok, no spoilers BUT can we find out if it's a one hour show or half an hour? I'm concerned if it's 1/2 hour then it's all filler updating us on previous episodes.

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    1. It'sa one hour show. What's interesting to me is HBB premieres on 7/17 but the 1st episode is not on On Demand. There's a 4 minute preview but so far that's all. I was going to say HBO and Showtime have had shows appearing on On Demand a week before it shows on premium cable....but this just seems weird they've done this with Sister Wives. I wonder why.

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    2. Maye tey don't want the premier episode to appear online (on one of the countless free sites) before it actually airs.

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  27. I'd like to see Michael C. keep the 9 kids under age of 5 (like Rose does everyday) while the moms just go grocery shopping...couldn't he handle them a few hours??? Super man that he is...even controlling the shopping! My husband never stayed with my twins for more than a half hour (enough time for a long bath or laundry for me!)...because he claimed he couldn't do it as good as me. Hah! Just keep your cool, babies happy and you're as good as me! That was alright though....at 15, they still want to snuggle me and 'talk' to me and not at all with him....you reap what you sew.

    I noticed on the previews for sister wives that they were wearing hard hats to walk through their new homes. I laughed out loud at the staging! We just finished a house and we NEVER wore hard hats...and we did some of the work ourselves! At least try to appeal to be real.

    One more thing....I told my husband last night about when Joe Darger married his first two wives. He married them in the same ceremony! With whom did he spend that first night? His legal wife? What a choice! My claws would have come out that night if I had not been the first one! What dysfunction!!!!

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    1. All they would say is, "someone had to go first" and as far as I know they've never said. Was that in their FAQs from their website, maybe? I know I read that somewhere after the three wives show.

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  28. Mister Sister - a hearty congrats on unravelling the twisted vines of this family tree! I cannot imagine how incredibly complicated this must've been. I picture you working furiously into the night on a table littered with papers, coffee at the ready, scribbling names and cross-checking...it's so complicated, I wonder if the members themselves actually really know who they are related to and how.

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  29. Would it be possible to have a spoilers only post? :)

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    1. Great idea, I would love this to!

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    2. Me too! spoilers please?

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    3. That would be amazing. Can't wait!

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    4. Your wish is my command...enjoy!

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  30. CJ if you're watching now does that mean we can expect one of your great reviews as soon as the premier airs? That's all I care about. I quit watching the Brown clowns before last "season" and could keep up just fine, do LOVE the blog.

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    1. Since I get most of my "screen shots" when the episode becomes available on amazon, I can't guarantee that quick of a turn around. But I'll try!

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    2. Looking forward to your review. I don't watch either, as I refuse to support them with ratings numbers. Your reviews are much more fun anyway!

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  31. A response to Slakermom in regards to who went first in the Darger tri-marriage (replies doesn't seem to be working right now) I cant remember where I read it, maybe in their book. But it was said that Alina went first as she was older than Vicki.
    I believe that harkens back to the bible, when Jacob had to (duped into) marry Rachel's older sister Leah first.

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  32. A little off topic, but I just finished Krystin Deckers' 50 Years of Polygamy and all I can say is wow, just wow.I have never had a more visceral response to a book before this one. This wasn't Warren Jeffs' polygamy either. This is probably more the Brown/Darger variety.

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    1. Kristyn was a member of the AUB (Apostolic United Brethren) - the same polygamist group that Kody and krew belong to.

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    2. Karen, I recently read it and share your response. What a horror she went through.

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    3. The part of her book that shook me was how she described her husband being in the other wives part of the house. His second wife would close and lock the door as if to say "you are not welcome here." Once she went down to say she felt bad when they did this because she always left her own door unlocked. Instead of comforting her he snapped at her to get use to it and slammed the door in her face. Sorry but that is just not love. My husband could never do that to me. I could never put him through anything that terrible either.

      Another description she gave about Christmas and how she made homemade gifts for everyone in her sister wives family but they didn't reciprocate. It broke my heart reading that she felt like an outsider in her sister wives families home.

      I just couldn't and wouldn't EVER put of with it!

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  33. watching this show I was hoping Rose would marry Hyrum... lol but I guess that will never happen since he's 1st cousins with her dad! Thank you for clearing that up for me.

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  34. Ann Kelsh is HUGE in the Utah pro polygamy community. She gives polygamy such a wonderful outlook it made me think about doing it for about a second.

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  35. Does anyone know if there will definitely be a second season of Polygamy, USA and if so when it will air? I noticed that the first season just appeared on iTunes.

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    1. You might try the National Geographic website or the website for the production company for that information.

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